Welcome Sammy - great to have you join us here and bring up such great points.

Marauderz:

Who knows.. maybe WM7 also might sport this concept of a front end UI for the casual crowd while still retaining access to the flexiblity of a WM platform?

I think from some perspective the new WM6.1 standard homescreen plugin does this and I agree Marauderz I think it's the only win-win solution for techies and joe public alike.

 A comparison with the "10 best windows mobile comebacks against the Iphone" could be fun. I think I've got 3 of them in my post right there.

On a more serious note, I can't speak for the world in general; but from a UK perspective Windows Mobile devices an Iphones alike are sold very poorly indeed on the highstreet. They're both sold as mobile phones and they are so much more. It's an extreme rarity to find a salesperson who even knows which version of WM a device is using let alone how to demo it productively or what its capabilities are. While the service providers are ultimately to blame for not training their staff, neither Microsoft nor the manufacturers help matters by not providing demos or easily accessible literature within the devices themselves. Many regular mobile phones contain demo modes etc.

Dave Parker MVP:

rom a UK perspective Windows Mobile devices an Iphones alike are sold very poorly indeed on the highstreet

Here in the UK, if you ask a salesperson when the next Nokia is due, they know the name and date of the next model. If you ask them when a specific Windows Mobile device is due, they will look it up on the internet.

And, as mentioned before, Windows Mobile phones are sold as business devices, so most consummers assume that they are not for them, that they are far too complicated.

The advertising of smartphones in the UK and the smartphone education of sales staff is virtually none existant. Ask a sales person for a demo of an standard phone and they will show all of the bells and whistles. Ask the same with a smartphone and only occasionally will you find an 'expert' who is even aware of them.

Regarding to the sales of the WM and iPhones in Hong Kong, I have a funny story to tell.

You may already know that Hong Kong has the highest popularity of mobile phones in the world. The ratio of mobile phones to the population is 1.54:1. I'm not typing the wrong digits. 154 mobile phones per 100 people. There are shopping centers for selling mobile phones only. Phones are one of the trendy wearing items.

Another fact is that Hong Kong doesn't have any official carrier of iPhone. All iPhones selling in the marketing are tagged "100% cracked (or unlocked)" at a high price. (About 650 USD for a 8GB) The salesman just demo you how smooth and the beauttiful part of iPhone is. Only a little salesmen know what the advantages of WM system. This is due to several reasons.

First, most customers do not give you most than 5 minutes to demo a phone. There are too many phone models and many many shops. People will spend their time in comparing the prices. Secondly, the mobile sales are mobile, too. Most salesperson won't stay in the same job position for more than 1 year. The bosses force them to meet a high monthly quota of sales. It's because the shop rents are really expensive. (Averagely 7-10K USD per month for a small shop) Although the earnings of selling one WM device is a little higher than a feature phone, it takes 3 to 4 times to persuade the customer to choose a WM device.

iPhone or other phones have great advantage here. Just to show how easy and pretty to get some basic functions work. That's all. Hong Kong has still a great potential for mobile phones. Once I was sitting in the train, I saw a Primary student hold 2 mobile phones in hand. Well, the world goes crazy here.

WM can perform a long list of fantastic tasks but takes an even longer time to learn them. It has a specific group of customers. But I think it's time for Windows Mobile to move a further step to user-friendly side to let the public to get used to it.

I have some fans in my community site supporting Windows Mobile. They give a funny statement about Windows Mobile. "It's an addictive drug." Many people repel to this platform because it's frustrated to have too much things inside their phones. It's really not easy to buy the first WM device. Once started using it, they'll find that they can't live normally without a powerful phone. They started to spend time to study and explore it. One of the moderators in my site buy a new WM phone every month! Well, the world is really crazy.

Absolutely and it's not just a high street issue either. Telesales suffers in the same way and to a certain degree so do internet sales. You got to the big 4 (O2, TMobile, Vodafone, Orange) websites and look at the specs of a WM device and it says very little that is useful. You usually get a tick box about whether it has polyphonic ring tones or Java games or not. It's difficult to know where the blame lies really. Is it the manufacturers or the service providers? Is there more MS themelves can do?

Sammy Lau:

Once started using it, they'll find that they can't live normally without a powerful phone.

This is so true - it might be a longer learning curve, but once learnt you can't live without it.

I find it amusing though that no matter what they migrate from, BB, Iphone, Palm etc, although they concede they'd never go back they still complain about the UI.

What makes this forum uniquely different to so many other forums out there is 2 things

1) It was designed for people out there selling Windows Mobile

2) It's run by Microsoft and Microsoft are looking at it every day and trying to take the feedback and discussion and weave it into our plans for the future.

So i wanted to take a moment out from this thread and say THANK YOU from Microsoft to all of you who are helping in making this forum a real success. This thread has some really great observations and real feedback from the people out there that deal with  these devices every day.

Wanted you to know we're listening and appreciate all the great support

Dave Parker MVP:

It's difficult to know where the blame lies really. Is it the manufacturers or the service providers? Is there more MS themelves can do?

This is a good point.  Microsoft can only do so much before it's out of our hands and up to the service providers to properly train and reinforce product information to their sales field.  There's always OEM issues as well which could shape public perception on the WM O/S, good or bad.

As a fellow Microsoft representative, I echo Simeon's sentiment, and thank you for all of your valuable input.